For Those Who Say Apple is Abandoning Final Cut…

June 9, 2009

Picture 131

Look at the top right hand corner of the banner… at least you can see that Final Cut Pro will take advantage of 64 bit when it arrives with Snow Leopard.


39 Responses to “For Those Who Say Apple is Abandoning Final Cut…”

  1. hi mike….that’s what i like to hear…….Im getting all freaky again…keep it coming……and mike im the only who did not put you down!

  2. KBeat said

    They’ve been saying the same things over on the photographer front about Aperture. Apple has abandoned the app!! Gees, when has Apple ever talked about products in development?

    Apple is hard at work on major pro app updates, including Final Cut and Aperture. They are Snow Leopard dependent and will be phenomenal upgrades when released.

  3. yeah, but they could say something (apple) about it….to give us some hope

  4. Knute5 said

    Don’t worry. All is well with FC. When SL launches, look for Apple to follow up with turbocharged 64-bit pro apps. Hopefully Adobe will have Cocoa-based apps within the year.

  5. maybe that’s when steve jobs does his thing?

  6. brunerd said

    I mean they are testing out the new Final Cut Server if that’s a clue as well!

  7. mike, where are you……..we miss you!

  8. Tom Morton said

    Why would Apple abandon a market they own. These comments are so freaking stupid. Does anyone realize what is take to develop and test an app like FCP. Again people who post these comments more pure morons.

  9. hey tom…what’s with the moron thing…just here to have some fun……cool it

  10. losslesscodecs said

    “Tom Morton said
    June 11, 2009 at 8:52 am
    Why would Apple abandon a market they own. These comments are so freaking stupid. Does anyone realize what is take to develop and test an app like FCP. Again people who post these comments more pure morons.”

    Well Tom you don’t have to be such a dick with the moron thing! There are justified concerns within this topic, most of which is frustration and venting. Why would Apple abandon a market they own? you ask, well that market is only 1/2 of 1 % of Apple’s revenue for starters, and everything these days revolves around iPhone, iLife, and laptops and apparently not much else.

  11. right on….we will be very lucky if fcs3 comes out……

  12. mike,.. did your guy ever say what happen,….did he say what will happen…did he say anything?……………about fcs3

  13. c/on mike talk to us….give us some hope….even if it’s some hype…..

  14. webraider said

    losslesscodecs said:

    “Why would Apple abandon a market they own? you ask, well that market is only 1/2 of 1 % of Apple’s revenue for starters, and everything these days revolves around iPhone, iLife, and laptops and apparently not much else.”

    Your statement is completely illogical. you are proceeding from a false assumption. You are assuming that the people who are purchasing Final Cut or any Pro App already have a machine to run it on. Most studios I know upgrade on a year an half cycle just so they can continue to run the latest greatest Pro App. No Final Cut = Adobe = now I’m free to pick my platform = no more $ for Apple. I would say that BECAUSE Apple has Pro-Apps that are platform specfic they generate indirectly at least 10- 15 % of Their Revenue in sales for the year (HARDWARE and SOFTWARE). All this to say, with the ProApps it’s not just the cost of the software, but the cost of the hard ware too.

  15. I think i life 09 is becoming the software that sells there hardware=mac books =i macs…..I talked to a apple guy at the store…he said no one buys mac pros at all…anymore!

  16. bob said

    My source, who actually works at apple (unlike Mikes source) as a pro app debugger cryptically told me today that I would know something in about a month about the new studio software.

  17. bob said

    Oh and digital dream, your mac store guy is a moron and so are you… Who in there right mind would want to go into the apple store and buy a mac pro from those faux hawk sporting goons?? Everybody knows you buy pro gear off the internets or from a reseller. Sheesh!

  18. hey bob… cool, moron is not a nice thing to say….who the fuck do you think your talking to… asshole!

  19. bob said

    Yo mama!

  20. did it make you feel good to say that,….ok now let’s get back to fcs 3….

  21. Webraider said

    Digital Dream… Bob said beat me too it albeit I wouldn’t have said it so bluntly. Pro Buyers almost never walk into an apple store and purchase a MacPro. They Purchase it online or through corporate channels. The do however, walk in and test them out when they visit. Keep in mind that the “mini” Apple Stores don’t even carry MacPros for that reason. I promise you.. Someone is buying a MacPro as we speak. (I purchased mine last year.. Hands down the best Mac you can buy)

  22. thanks for the tip….

  23. Webraider said

    Digital Dream… FYI… in spite of the bantering (and hopefully harmless bantering) on this site.. I like your website… It’s very nice! And I agree.. back to FC3. Any updates from Sources on the subject/issue? Mike?? Bob Said??

  24. ..hey mike……any new news?……c/on we need to know something….and you know about what!

  25. bob said

    Mike dosen’t have any info, like I said wait a month. Don’t have to believe me, just wait and see. We will know something in about a month.

  26. thanks bob..that’s good news

  27. thanks bob…that’s good news!

  28. here’s an interesting article…….

    What about Final Cut Studio and Snow Leopard?
    In the comments on my article on “Why no ExpressCard 24 slot in the new MacBook Pro” Andreas asked about Final Cut Studio and Snow Leopard and I briefly responded there. Larry Jordan responded on his blog (Andreas asking him the same question) but not in any detail. Neither Larry nor I are programmers, but I direct programmers every day – both OS X software and Web applications – so I do know a little. Plus I’ve tracked the technology development for FCP from version 1 onward – every change from OS 9 to OS X CFM, to OS X Mach-O to a hybrid application.

    So, let’s see if I can manage a little clarity even if it’s only based on observation and deduction. As I said in the brief response, I have no clue what development Apple are doing and whether or not this is at all accurate. No doubt there will be engineers at Apple laughing at my naivety!

    Carbon was the technology that Apple developed to let OS 9 applications run on OS X. It’s a set of programming interfaces (APIs) that individual applications call. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with Carbon, except that it can’t take advantage of any of the modern features of OS X – particularly those coming in Snow Leopard, nor can it run in 64 bit.

    Cocoa is a different set of APIs, heavily drawn from NeXTSTEP – the NeXT operating system (Apple acquired NeXT in 1996). It is the preferred method for programming for OS X. In fact Apple have been pretty clear to its developers that, long term, Carbon will give way to Cocoa. They are encouraging all developers to get their code to “pure cocoa”.

    When it looked like Apple were going to continue Carbon development with 64 bit APIs, as announced at the WWDC in 2006, there was really little incentive for Apple to spend the very many millions of dollars it will cost to rewrite FCP’s Carbon parts as Cocoa – to just get to where it is now. 64 bit Carbon was also Adobe’s preferred path for its older applications (Photoshop, Illustrator and After Effects). With 64 bit Carbon coming, Adobe could get 64 bit support without a major rewrite.

    But when, at WWDC in 2007, Apple changed the rules and said, “No 64 bit Carbon”, any high-performance application had to think seriously about rewriting to Cocoa, at least long term.

    We know, from public announcements, that Adobe had to delay 64 bit support for the named applications until CS 5 on OS X because of the time it takes to move applications to Cocoa and therefore 64 bit support.

    All new features in FCP, since FCP 5 onward, have been written in Cocoa – HDV Log and Capture, Log and Transfer, Multicam, FXplug (that I know of) are all Cocoa. OS X lets programmers mix and match programming languages with ease. My guess is that Apple, like Adobe, would have continued with a hybrid approachwith Final Cut Pro if the 64 bit Carbon APIs were going to be available. When they were not, the Pro Apps team, like Adobe, would have to have started porting their application to Cocoa. CS4 showed none of that progress, being released less than 2 years after the ‘07 WWDC announcement.

    Most of the FC Studio applications are new enough to have been written in Cocoa – the second revision of DVD Studio Pro (Spruce, not the Astarte-based DVD SP 1); Motion, LiveType, Soundtrack Pro and Compressor are all pure Cocoa applications and can (relatively) easily take advantage of 64 bit and/or Snow Leopard features like Grand Central Dispatch. I say “relatively” because there is still work to be done, that generally can’t start until Snow Leopard’s features are locked (i.e. WWDC 2009).

    No responsible programmer is going to attempt to write for a new OS until the OS is locked and finished. So, theoretically, the engineers working on those applications could start NOW to work on Snow Leopard features, ready for a release in a year or two.

    I can’t imagine that even the Cocoa-based Studio products will be taking advantage of any Snow Leopard features this time round – the timing is just all wrong. And they’re already Cocoa.

    FCP, starting life at Macromedia as a cross-platform OS 9/Windows application, has most of the core written in Carbon. My (educated) guess is that it will take 2-3 years to rewrite all that code to Cocoa. I doubt they started that before WWDC 2007, as until then there was little incentive to invest many millions of dollars in a Cocoa rewrite. (Remember this is before the announcement of Snow Leopard, Grand Central Dispatch and OpenCL too.) Those features do provide an additional incentive to get FCP to “pure cocoa” (I estimate $10-15 million will be required to write, test, test, and I hope test what will effectively be v1 code again).

    Apple will no doubt do that because the Final Cut Studio is highly profitable for the company from software sales only. (You don’t need to get too much from 1.25 million customers to make a viable business, even without taking into account any hardware sales, which don’t benefit the Pro Apps team at all.)

    However, wanting to do it and having the time to do it are different things. They didn’t start (most probably) until after WWDC 2007 when they, and the Adobe teams, learnt that 64 Carbon wasn’t going to happen. Allow two to three years to finish that job, before they can start to think about Snow-Leopard feature optimizations.

    Pretty much every release of FCP requires the latest OS (the exceptions being FCP 3 which was for OS X and OS 9 both, and FCS 2 which is Leopard OSX 10.5 or Tiger OS X 10.4.11) and the latest QuickTime. So, I think that Studio 3 will, on the balance of probability, require Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard has no problem running 32 bit Cocoa applications at the same speed they always ran. As Snow Leopard has no PPC version, it could mean that FCS 3 may be not supported on PPC, we’ll have to wait for Apple to let us know. (FWIW, Adobe’s Production Premium CS4 is Intel only; Avid’s 3.x releases are Intel only, by way of reference.)

    However, absolutely do not even think about running FCS 2 on anything newer than Leopard. In fact NEVER run FCP on any version of the OS or QT other than the ones that were directly supported. To do so is going to cause you problems, pain and regret. Old versions are never tested on the new OS and QT so there’s no reasonable expectation that they will run on a newer OS.

    So, whether or not FCP 6 will run on Snow Leopard or not is irrelevant. Only an idiot would attempt it, and none of my readers are that stupid, right? Bank on an FCS upgrade to run the studio on Snow Leopard because it’s the only way to guarantee you’ll still be in business with an operating NLE after the upgrade.

    Based on all that, the timing of Snow Leopard etc., it’s not really reasonable to expect that there will be Snow Leopard features in the next release, but we won’t know until Apple releases them. Until then, I guess we can all dream!

  29. bob said

    This is what I meant when I said you must be crazy to think FCP 7 had been written from the ground up for Snow Leopard. I knew Mikes source was bogus when he made such a claim in the first place.

    Nice find Digital.

  30. thanks’ bob….hey mike…what do you and source think about the article…….

  31. hey mike, where the hell are you?….we miss you

  32. here’s an other interesting article…….

    To my mind Apple, sadly, have a BIG PROBLEM… And its a problem they have had before and not seemed to learned the lesson.

    When FCP6 was released (in the guise of FCS2) It contained NOT A SINGLE ‘NEW’ THING. Not one. Everything in FCP6, that was an improvement from FCP5, was simply a catch-up to what every other NLE had had months or even years before.

    I wrote about this in a blog entry entitled ‘Where did all the new-ness go?’

    ProRes was a copy of DNxHD and Cineform. Multi-format timeline was something everyone else had been enjoying for a very long time. 24bit 96k audio was standard everywhere but FCP. Multi-cam was nothing new, the list goes on. There was no innovation or market leadership in FCP6 as there had been in previous versions – namely 2 and 3. FCP6 was merely playing catchup to the 8-ball.

    I said then that Apple needed to desperately get in front of the ball and release an FCP7 very quickly… They failed. FCP7 is far far too long coming. By the time it does get here I’ll be not at all surprised if it delivers nothing but catchup again. In fact i fail to see how unless Apple truly come out with a from-scractch re-write of FCP into something mind-blowing, that FCP7 can be anything but a disappointment.

    What do we hope for in FCP7/FCS3…?
    – A real-time engine that can actually scale decoding resolution.
    – Actual 4k 4096px support
    – Project files able to be fully exchanged with Motion/Colour/DVDSP
    – GPU acceleration (used for much more than page-twirl transitions)
    – Surround sound audio
    – Greatly improved audio tools in general (this is a VERY long list that starts with the ability to playback a bloody MP3 files without RENDERING!!!!)
    – Metadata management
    – And of course ‘real’ native format suppourt

    And yet even though all these in FCP7 would be a lovely improvement over FCP6, everyone of these is Already available in FCP’s competitors – namely Premiere, vegas and Avid. And moreover, has been for a LONG time.

    There’s only so long Apple can continue to bring very late delivery of NLE features that its competitors take for granted before it starts losing market share and industry respect. Unless Apple pull some of the guys off the damned iPhone and start putting some real resources into ProApps development then they’ll be perpetually behind the market. Each new version of FCP only able to deliver what everyone else already has. I find myself asking where did Apple the innovator went?

    I hope that im wrong. i hope that FCP doesnt just catchup but goes way passed where the others are at with FCS3. I hope they deliver integration Better than Adobe’s. I hope they deliver audio tools better than those in Vegas. I hope they deliver project management better than Avid. But the shift from where FCP is right now to this fantasy is so Huge that i just dont think it’s possible. And that’s a real shame.

    At the film school where I teach students learn FCS first and the Adobe CS and are then free to choose whatever apps and workflow suits them and their projects… Needless to say, FCS isnt popular in the latter part of the course….

  33. webraider said

    Gee Digital Dreamfilms. I’d just settle for Blu-Ray Authoring (and playback) 😉

  34. oh yeah, your right me too….but maybe faster rendering would be nice too…or no rendering at all……what a dream

  35. G said

    Apple Store offline! FInalCut Studio 3? Probably not, but hey, you never know

  36. bob said

    And… I was correct!

  37. webraider said

    Yeah.. Bob Said was correct. The only weird thing, it does Author BluRay DVD’s but not from DVDSP. You have to author it from Compressor. You can author regular DVD’s from there too now. There are menu’s and everything to choose from. I’m thinking that’s the fast version. Maybe there wasn’t enough time yet to update DVDSP? The Cool thing is if I get Final Cut Studio which includes compressor, I can then author a BluRay with it from iMovie!

  38. are all you out there happy…about the new FCS3….mike what about you??

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